Time calculation

[Ralgha]

In APDL's time calculations table, I have it set up to match Logbook Pro's calculations. However, APDL doesn't seem to pay attention to these settings. For example, I have <= 14 = .2 in the table, but when a leg is 1:15 long, it calculates as 1.2 hours. It should calculate as 1.3 hours according to the table.

[NC Software]

Hello,

What are your settings for the entire table? If you want, send us your backup folder (per below) and we'll look at your preferences configuration.

Palm OS:

C:\Program Files\palmOne\{Your Palm Username}\Backup

Pocket PC:

C:\Program Files\Logbook Pro\APDL Pocket PC\{8-digit ID}\Backup

[Ralgha]

<= 2 = .0
<= 8 = .1
<= 14 = .2
<= 20 = .3
<= 26 = .4
<= 33 = .5
<= 39 = .6
<= 45 = .7
<= 51 = .8
<= 57 = .9

If that doesn't help, I'll send my backup file.

[NC Software]

Are you using Palm OS or Pocket PC and are you also using the latest version as listed here?

[Ralgha]

No, I found that I wasn't using the latest version (Palm). I updated and it appears to work correctly now. Thanks!

[airmorgan]

I've also had problems with the times as they are being imported. Recently, I've noticed that 5:12 translates into 5.1 hours. This has happened a couple of times. I just go thru logbook pro and adjust the time to the real value (no biggie).

Today, I noticed this thread and discovered the time calc values are different for LBP and APDL. I have not changed either of them. They are both at their default settings. Why are they not the same? Here is what they are set to:

LBP version 1.10.25
<= 2 = .0
<= 8 = .1
<= 14 = .2
<= 20 = .3
<= 26 = .4
<= 33 = .5
<= 39 = .6
<= 45 = .7
<= 51 = .8
<= 57 = .9

APDL version 6.0.2
<= 3 = .0
<= 9 = .1
<= 15 = .2
<= 21 = .3
<= 27 = .4
<= 33 = .5
<= 39 = .6
<= 45 = .7
<= 51 = .8
<= 57 = .9

The strange thing is they are different for the first 5 time conversions... then they become the same. I know this is a conflict... but in either case :12 min should translate to .2 hours....right?

I like the time converter for APDL over LBP. How can I change LBP to match APDL?

[NC Software]

Logbook Pro's time calculation system is not configurable, we are planning to add this in the next version. We are also considering passing the data from APDL to Logbook Pro in a way that it can use Logbook Pro's time calculation system which matches the USAF 781 format which Logbook Pro is based on.

[airmorgan]

So is there a fix right now? I guess I could try changing the time converter on the APDL to match LBP. Also, I noticed my APDL is about 2 versions old. Can I update to the current APDL version without updating the one before that first? I currently have APDL 6.0.2.

[NC Software]

Hello,

There is no fix as it's not a problem, however, since we acquired the APDL product line we are continuing to work to blend the two products. We have a feature request open to get the APDL and Logbook Pro time calculations better in sync, but it is not a critical issue.

You can download the latest version from our web site. All 6.x versions are free updates to 6.x customers. We do not have a timed update system like APDL formerly used.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by NC Software

We have a feature request open to get the APDL and Logbook Pro time calculations better in sync, but it is not a critical issue.

Not a critical issue? This problem strikes at the very core of the program! If a logbook program does nothing else, it should accurately record flight times. This problem violates that. If the time calculation settings of both programs are the same (and they are after changing the APDL preferences), they should both be in sync, always! Otherwise, why bother?

[airmorgan]

Originally Posted by NC Software

Hello,

There is no fix as it's not a problem.

I think this is a real problem. Once again I have to go into LBP and change the times APDL put into it because it said 5:45 = 5.6 hours and that 4:27 = 4.3 hours. Fixing this problem should be a top priority. LBP is designed to keep track of flight time... IS IT NOT??!!! Well, every week my flight times imported from APDL into LBP are off by .1 or .2 per day. Seems like a problem to me!

[Ralgha]

Are you guys ever going to fix this problem or do you still deny that it's a problem?

[NC Software]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

Are you guys ever going to fix this problem or do you still deny that it's a problem?

Hello,

As stated in the correspondence above that we plan to continue the merging of the APDL and Logbook Pro products which include how they calculate time and communicate with one another. This is not an overnight process and will take time. I do not expect this to be resolved until the later part of this year.

Thank you for your patience.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by NC Software

Hello,

As stated in the correspondence above that we plan to continue the merging of the APDL and Logbook Pro products which include how they calculate time and communicate with one another. This is not an overnight process and will take time. I do not expect this to be resolved until the later part of this year.

Thank you for your patience.

Better late than never I suppose. Do you realize how serious this problem is? The most basic function, correctly tracking time, is broken. It should be priority number one.

[NC Software]

It actually shows the diversity in how people track time. Time tracking in pilot logbooks is in no way standardized. Different logbook programs track time differently, there are different time scales among various military services, airlines, etc. APDL provides you a time scale system so you can change it to your needs, that in itself demonstrates how there is no standard in the aviation industry that all pilots track time the same. Some pilots track the time the propeller spins (hobbs), others track wheels up to wheels down. Tracking time in minutes vice tenths, tenths opens up an accuracy issue by 6 minute windows vice to the minute.

Hopefully this sheds some light on the issue, it is up to you how you log your time and that it reflects accurately based on the rules in which you are governed.

Thank you for your feedback. Again, we are merging two products that were once two companies, we are continuing to work to bring them in sync in how times are handled.

[Ralgha]

Originally Posted by NC Software

It actually shows the diversity in how people track time. Time tracking in pilot logbooks is in no way standardized. Different logbook programs track time differently, there are different time scales among various military services, airlines, etc. APDL provides you a time scale system so you can change it to your needs, that in itself demonstrates how there is no standard in the aviation industry that all pilots track time the same. Some pilots track the time the propeller spins (hobbs), others track wheels up to wheels down. Tracking time in minutes vice tenths, tenths opens up an accuracy issue by 6 minute windows vice to the minute.

Hopefully this sheds some light on the issue, it is up to you how you log your time and that it reflects accurately based on the rules in which you are governed.

Thank you for your feedback. Again, we are merging two products that were once two companies, we are continuing to work to bring them in sync in how times are handled.

No, it doesn't shed any light on the issue. I'm fully aware that people track time in different manners, that has nothing to do with this. I have the APDL time scale set to be exactly the same as the one in Logbook Pro, yet occasionally it is imported at .1 less than it really is (in APDL). Having Logbook Pro recalculate the time works, and it comes up with the correct number. Because of this flaw, I have to audit every leg after importing. It doesn't matter if I was logging time based on when I got out of bed or when I passed through 10,000 feet, the error is the same.

[Ralgha]

I just synced 36 legs. 3 of them had this error. One was a 1:15 flight, which imported as 1.2 when it should have been 1.3. Another was a 1:27 flight, imported as 1.4, should have been 1.5. The last was a :27 flight, imported as .4 when it should have been .5.

All of my "should have been" values are according to the time chart in LBP, and the customizable time chart in APDL has been changed to match it exactly. Notice that the minute value of each incorrect leg is the bottom of its group in the time chart. APDL recognizes the decimal equivilant of each flight correctly, as does LBP when entered by hand.

I am using the most recent verion of each product.

[NC Software]

When you sync APDL to Logbook Pro the Logbook Pro time chart/scale is not used. The times are determined on the APDL side based off of your time scale in the preferences. The bridge that connects APDL to Logbook Pro only passes a duration value and that value is directly written into Logbook Pro.

FYI

[Pilot279]

Originally Posted by NC Software

When you sync APDL to Logbook Pro the Logbook Pro time chart/scale is not used.

I don't see how that can be because I modified my APDL time calculations to:

<=2 = .0
<=8 = .1
<=14 =.2
<=20 =.3
<=26 =.4
<=32 =.5
<=28 =.6
<=44 =.7
<=50 =.8
<=56 =.9

I recently had a flight of 1 hour 9 minutes, which APDL calculates as 1.2, however when I sync with logbook pro, logbook pro logs it as 1.1 ... therefore I also have to fix the legs manually in logbookpro.

[NC Software]

If you are having a problem and you're syncing "By LogPage" try syncing "By Leg" and see if the problem is resolved.

[Ralgha]

I am syncing by leg.

Apparently it's this "duration value" that is being passed that is wrong. It should match the duration calculated by APDL according to the time chart. It may not be a bug per se, since apparently it is working as the design intended, but the design is flawed and should be fixed. Fast.

[Ralgha]

2 of 18 legs synced today were wrong due to this flaw.

[NC Software]

Ralgha,

Please zip compress the following folder and e-mail to me in a support ticket so I can review your data when this issue is investigated:

C:\Program Files\palmOne\{Your Palm Username}\Backup

[NC Software]

Please reference bug track number FB 1356 which is what we have internally to investigate this issue. Thank you for your patience.

[Ralgha]

I've submitted the file, sorry it took so long, I've been gone awhile.